Soham Hamsa
Question Re: Hamsa and Soham mantras
Some of the material in this topic is based on interpretations by Sri. Kondamudi Hanumacchastri who authored a series of articles titled "Atharva Vedamlo Aksaya Nidhulu" in Andhra Prabha Weekly 1981-82.
Question from a Buddhist: Please tell me of the meaning and significance of this mantra and any scriptural references thereto.
Vaidix: The discussion started with Atharva veda (Prana Sukta). This is how it goes..
The cosmic energy which is in the Sun enters waters and heats them up.
Then it enters the clouds when water evaporates, then it enters rain (from the clouds), then it enters the herbs as they absorb that rain.
That energy enters the living organisms and becomes prana when they eat those herbs. This prana splits up into two parts: prana and apana.
This prana together with apana supports the seven chakras with only one half of itself, and scripture wonders who knows what the other half is for!
This implies that meditation on prana is more powerful than the meditation re: the chakras.
The scripture mentions that Nivara (the wild rice that grows in the forest) is the source of prana and yava (barley) is the source of apana. It is well known that rice is an important source of energy and barley has excellent medicinal properties that help in excretion.
Sri Hanumacchastri interprets that prana raises from the lower end of spine to top of the head during inhalation, and apana runs down from top of the head to lower end of the spine during exhalation.
This is the meditation regarding prana and apana according to prana sukta.
This meditation does not endorse a one way upward movement like that of the popular kundalini theory; but it is a two way movement: up and down.
Prana helps in igniting the fuels in the body and release energy to activate the living cells, and apAna helps in excreting the waste materials such as urine, stool, sweat, CO2 etc.
The meditation goes like this: During inhalation, imagine a point of concentration that starts at the lower end of spine, going up to the top of the head by the end of inhalation.
The point of concentration has to reach top of the head at the end of inhalation, never mind if you have to skip some portion of the spine in a hurry.
Likewise during exhalation, imagine a point of concentration that runs down the spine from top of head and reaches the lower end of spine by the end of exhalation.
The point of concentration has to reach the lower end of spine by the end of exhalation, never mind if you have to skip some portion of the spine. (Repeat this about five times, once a day).
The upward movement of the point of concentration during inhalation is called prana, and the downward movement of the point of concentration during exhalation is called apana.
According to physiological psychology, the spine has two nervous systems namely sympathetic nervous system and para-sympathetic nervous system.
The sympathetic nervous system helps in igniting the fuels in the body and activate the living cells so that he organism can cope with its needs.
The para-sympathetic nervous system has the effect of moderating the nervous activity to conserve energy, and it also helps in activities of excretion and removal of bodily wastes.
Therefore it must be understood that meditation regarding prana and apana tones up the sympathetic and para-sympathetic nervous systems.
In my opinion any obstruction to this meditation (that causes us to skip a portion of the spine) represents a problem that a person faces at any point of time.
Conversely these (the obstructions to this meditation) are the only problems a person experiences at any point of time, whether one knows how to translate and explain those problems into a human language or not!
The meditation re: prana and apana is known to be a philosophical truth finder plus lie detector that is within the human (or any other living) body; because when a person meditates on any topic to know its truth, if one experiences an obstruction of prana or apana it must be known as untruth.
If there was no obstruction it is the truth.
The combination of prana and apana is the entire functionality of the spine and it is also called the Unknown in the Veda.
That is the connection.
This concludes the meditation regarding prana and apana.
(The following discussion may be skipped by first time readers.)
While the preceding is the factual position according to prana sukta and its interpretations, other portions of the scripture such as chandogya upanisat describe prana and apana in a different way saying prana is the cause of exhalation, and apana is the cause of inhalation.
This can be confusing, as it apparently contradicts what we said before, that prana raises from lower end of spine to the top of the head during inhalation and that meditation re: prana is best done during inhalation, and the other way for apana, that is apana runs down from top of the head to lower end of spine during exhalation, and meditation re: apana is best done during exhalation.
Now chandogya throws us into a conflict by associating prana with exhalation and apana with inhalation when it says prana is the cause of exhalation and apana is the cause of inhalation.
There is really no conflict.
Both arguments of the scripture are correct.
The conflict gets resolved when we define prana as the ability to exhale and the apana as the ability to inhale.
The ability to exhale (prana) gets strengthened during inhalation, and the ability to inhale gets strengthened during exhalation.
In other words, prana invests in apana and apana invests in prana.
Now going back to discussion re: hamsa, prana sukta hints that there is death in every breathing cycle, but the death does not really happen because the hamsa (swan) that is made of this prana and apana while swimming on the lake tries to get up with one leg still on water, and then decides to stay back on water to resume its swimming.
As for the mention of hamsa (swan), Sri Hanumacchastri's interpretation is that, inhalation sounds like "ham" and exhalation sounds like "sa"; therefore hamsa is "inhalation followed by exhalation".
Soham is no different from hamsa because it is merely the same two elements in the reverse order "exhalation followed by inhalation".
The "death" is the death of the thought that a person has at any point of time. The thought gets dissolved, that is, it gets fully understood (during the exhalation), and enlightenment is achieved at that very moment, but life continues because the swan decides to stay back (possibly because there are other things remaining to be understood).
Hamsa is the mantra that starts with inhalation and ends with exhalation.
The inhalation is meant for enjoying the desires that are born in the mind, because inhalation fires the fuels in the body and releases energy.
The exhalation that follows is meant to clean up the body of the waste materials generated and purify the body and mind.
The meditation re: Hamsa eliminates desires by fully enjoying the desires.
Soham is the mantra that starts with exhalation.
The exhalation (sa) is meant for renouncing the worldly pleasures, but one cannot renounce everything, even a monk who has renounced everything still has something left to enjoy.
What remains to be enjoyed is the seed for the next inhalation, and that is the source of ham.
Sa and ham together becomes soham according to Sanskrit grammar.
Therefore hamsa and soham both lead to enlightenment, while the approaches are different.
Hamsa starts out with the purpose of enjoying the seeds of past works so that they do not lead to further birth, whereas soham starts out with the purpose of renouncing the future works by removing the illusion that something has to be done now.
While hamsa decides to stay back on the lake (and continue life),
hamsa means "I am"
soham means "I am that (one material that exists)".
Soham starts out with the idea of ending this life by removing the illusion that this self is different from that existence, but continuing the life only because some illusion is still left out.
And right here is where The Bible (and what has become Christianity) meets Veda, Jesus meets Buddha and Krishna and India.
And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial unto all generations.
So the God of the Bible said, I am breath
And the Veda, the oldest scripts known to mankind said, I am breath
Question: Yes, thank you for your remarks.
Now, a point of interest to me....the Bodhisattva way of life, the essence of which (as I understand it) since one believes (as a Buddhist) that everything has interdependent origination, then (again, in brief) all is related, all is one, all is unity; therefore, one can only be truly (that is fully) liberated from bondage when all are liberated.
Your story of the swan starting to fly, but with one leg still in the water, and then coming back to swim, is (in my view) another way of describing the classic case of a person who has scaled the wall and has the opportunity to escape the bondage of maya, but, instead out of compassion (and also the knowledge that all is one) comes back into the world (resumes swimming) in order to liberate all sentient beings.
Vaidix: I fully agree with you.
If multiple organisms are perceived, it is the responsibility of the practitioner to assume leadership and distribute the knowledge of enlightenment to all the beings. However if the perception of different beings is itself due to result of a false sense of division in existence arising out of ignorance, and if that ignorance is removed by discarding that false idea, there is no further responsibility.
Even though there is no further responsibility, a person of knowledge continues to work in the society, not because one is forced to by the past karmas but as a prime mover.
Question: Also, secondly, there is the observation that between the in-breath and the out-breath (or vice versa) that there is a still-point of no-breath... and yet we are still alive.
It is at this point that the "primordial vibration" may be experienced that provides peace that surpasses all understanding.
Your thoughts on that notion or your experience of same will be appreciated.
Answer: That which is between inhalation and exhalation, or between exhalation and inhalation is what is the cause of both.
That which is the cause of both inhalation and exhalation and is the basis of both, is vyana, or brhaspati.
It is not in spite of this point of no-breath (Brhaspati) that we live.
It is because of this brhaspati that we live.
However, even Brhaspati has a cause in that, when the Known is fully controlled by the Unknown it is a symbol of brhaspati.
The components of knowledge namely the Known, the Knowable and the Unknown (as represented by speech, brain and spine respectively) are alone the reality and these alone are the source of all the deities, and all the gods beginning with Indra, Brhaspati, and Vishnu are merely derivatives of knowledge.
The breathing cycle (as represented by the sevenfold sama) is itself a sum total of thought cycles of all the living cells in the body, and the thought cycle of each individual cell (as represented by gayatra sama) is itself in turn perceived due to a false of sense of interaction between the components of knowledge namely the Known, the Knowable and the Unknown.
And ultimately the components of knowledge are themselves perceived due to a false sense of division in Existence.
Some of the material in this topic is based on interpretations by Sri. Kondamudi Hanumacchastri who authored a series of articles titled "Atharva Vedamlo Aksaya Nidhulu" in Andhra Prabha Weekly 1981-82.
Question from a Buddhist: Please tell me of the meaning and significance of this mantra and any scriptural references thereto.
Vaidix: The discussion started with Atharva veda (Prana Sukta). This is how it goes..
The cosmic energy which is in the Sun enters waters and heats them up.
Then it enters the clouds when water evaporates, then it enters rain (from the clouds), then it enters the herbs as they absorb that rain.
That energy enters the living organisms and becomes prana when they eat those herbs. This prana splits up into two parts: prana and apana.
This prana together with apana supports the seven chakras with only one half of itself, and scripture wonders who knows what the other half is for!
This implies that meditation on prana is more powerful than the meditation re: the chakras.
The scripture mentions that Nivara (the wild rice that grows in the forest) is the source of prana and yava (barley) is the source of apana. It is well known that rice is an important source of energy and barley has excellent medicinal properties that help in excretion.
Sri Hanumacchastri interprets that prana raises from the lower end of spine to top of the head during inhalation, and apana runs down from top of the head to lower end of the spine during exhalation.
This is the meditation regarding prana and apana according to prana sukta.
This meditation does not endorse a one way upward movement like that of the popular kundalini theory; but it is a two way movement: up and down.
Prana helps in igniting the fuels in the body and release energy to activate the living cells, and apAna helps in excreting the waste materials such as urine, stool, sweat, CO2 etc.
The meditation goes like this: During inhalation, imagine a point of concentration that starts at the lower end of spine, going up to the top of the head by the end of inhalation.
The point of concentration has to reach top of the head at the end of inhalation, never mind if you have to skip some portion of the spine in a hurry.
Likewise during exhalation, imagine a point of concentration that runs down the spine from top of head and reaches the lower end of spine by the end of exhalation.
The point of concentration has to reach the lower end of spine by the end of exhalation, never mind if you have to skip some portion of the spine. (Repeat this about five times, once a day).
The upward movement of the point of concentration during inhalation is called prana, and the downward movement of the point of concentration during exhalation is called apana.
According to physiological psychology, the spine has two nervous systems namely sympathetic nervous system and para-sympathetic nervous system.
The sympathetic nervous system helps in igniting the fuels in the body and activate the living cells so that he organism can cope with its needs.
The para-sympathetic nervous system has the effect of moderating the nervous activity to conserve energy, and it also helps in activities of excretion and removal of bodily wastes.
Therefore it must be understood that meditation regarding prana and apana tones up the sympathetic and para-sympathetic nervous systems.
In my opinion any obstruction to this meditation (that causes us to skip a portion of the spine) represents a problem that a person faces at any point of time.
Conversely these (the obstructions to this meditation) are the only problems a person experiences at any point of time, whether one knows how to translate and explain those problems into a human language or not!
The meditation re: prana and apana is known to be a philosophical truth finder plus lie detector that is within the human (or any other living) body; because when a person meditates on any topic to know its truth, if one experiences an obstruction of prana or apana it must be known as untruth.
If there was no obstruction it is the truth.
The combination of prana and apana is the entire functionality of the spine and it is also called the Unknown in the Veda.
That is the connection.
This concludes the meditation regarding prana and apana.
(The following discussion may be skipped by first time readers.)
While the preceding is the factual position according to prana sukta and its interpretations, other portions of the scripture such as chandogya upanisat describe prana and apana in a different way saying prana is the cause of exhalation, and apana is the cause of inhalation.
This can be confusing, as it apparently contradicts what we said before, that prana raises from lower end of spine to the top of the head during inhalation and that meditation re: prana is best done during inhalation, and the other way for apana, that is apana runs down from top of the head to lower end of spine during exhalation, and meditation re: apana is best done during exhalation.
Now chandogya throws us into a conflict by associating prana with exhalation and apana with inhalation when it says prana is the cause of exhalation and apana is the cause of inhalation.
There is really no conflict.
Both arguments of the scripture are correct.
The conflict gets resolved when we define prana as the ability to exhale and the apana as the ability to inhale.
The ability to exhale (prana) gets strengthened during inhalation, and the ability to inhale gets strengthened during exhalation.
In other words, prana invests in apana and apana invests in prana.
Now going back to discussion re: hamsa, prana sukta hints that there is death in every breathing cycle, but the death does not really happen because the hamsa (swan) that is made of this prana and apana while swimming on the lake tries to get up with one leg still on water, and then decides to stay back on water to resume its swimming.
As for the mention of hamsa (swan), Sri Hanumacchastri's interpretation is that, inhalation sounds like "ham" and exhalation sounds like "sa"; therefore hamsa is "inhalation followed by exhalation".
Soham is no different from hamsa because it is merely the same two elements in the reverse order "exhalation followed by inhalation".
The "death" is the death of the thought that a person has at any point of time. The thought gets dissolved, that is, it gets fully understood (during the exhalation), and enlightenment is achieved at that very moment, but life continues because the swan decides to stay back (possibly because there are other things remaining to be understood).
Hamsa is the mantra that starts with inhalation and ends with exhalation.
The inhalation is meant for enjoying the desires that are born in the mind, because inhalation fires the fuels in the body and releases energy.
The exhalation that follows is meant to clean up the body of the waste materials generated and purify the body and mind.
The meditation re: Hamsa eliminates desires by fully enjoying the desires.
Soham is the mantra that starts with exhalation.
The exhalation (sa) is meant for renouncing the worldly pleasures, but one cannot renounce everything, even a monk who has renounced everything still has something left to enjoy.
What remains to be enjoyed is the seed for the next inhalation, and that is the source of ham.
Sa and ham together becomes soham according to Sanskrit grammar.
Therefore hamsa and soham both lead to enlightenment, while the approaches are different.
Hamsa starts out with the purpose of enjoying the seeds of past works so that they do not lead to further birth, whereas soham starts out with the purpose of renouncing the future works by removing the illusion that something has to be done now.
While hamsa decides to stay back on the lake (and continue life),
hamsa means "I am"
soham means "I am that (one material that exists)".
Soham starts out with the idea of ending this life by removing the illusion that this self is different from that existence, but continuing the life only because some illusion is still left out.
And right here is where The Bible (and what has become Christianity) meets Veda, Jesus meets Buddha and Krishna and India.
And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial unto all generations.
So the God of the Bible said, I am breath
And the Veda, the oldest scripts known to mankind said, I am breath
Question: Yes, thank you for your remarks.
Now, a point of interest to me....the Bodhisattva way of life, the essence of which (as I understand it) since one believes (as a Buddhist) that everything has interdependent origination, then (again, in brief) all is related, all is one, all is unity; therefore, one can only be truly (that is fully) liberated from bondage when all are liberated.
Your story of the swan starting to fly, but with one leg still in the water, and then coming back to swim, is (in my view) another way of describing the classic case of a person who has scaled the wall and has the opportunity to escape the bondage of maya, but, instead out of compassion (and also the knowledge that all is one) comes back into the world (resumes swimming) in order to liberate all sentient beings.
Vaidix: I fully agree with you.
If multiple organisms are perceived, it is the responsibility of the practitioner to assume leadership and distribute the knowledge of enlightenment to all the beings. However if the perception of different beings is itself due to result of a false sense of division in existence arising out of ignorance, and if that ignorance is removed by discarding that false idea, there is no further responsibility.
Even though there is no further responsibility, a person of knowledge continues to work in the society, not because one is forced to by the past karmas but as a prime mover.
Question: Also, secondly, there is the observation that between the in-breath and the out-breath (or vice versa) that there is a still-point of no-breath... and yet we are still alive.
It is at this point that the "primordial vibration" may be experienced that provides peace that surpasses all understanding.
Your thoughts on that notion or your experience of same will be appreciated.
Answer: That which is between inhalation and exhalation, or between exhalation and inhalation is what is the cause of both.
That which is the cause of both inhalation and exhalation and is the basis of both, is vyana, or brhaspati.
It is not in spite of this point of no-breath (Brhaspati) that we live.
It is because of this brhaspati that we live.
However, even Brhaspati has a cause in that, when the Known is fully controlled by the Unknown it is a symbol of brhaspati.
The components of knowledge namely the Known, the Knowable and the Unknown (as represented by speech, brain and spine respectively) are alone the reality and these alone are the source of all the deities, and all the gods beginning with Indra, Brhaspati, and Vishnu are merely derivatives of knowledge.
The breathing cycle (as represented by the sevenfold sama) is itself a sum total of thought cycles of all the living cells in the body, and the thought cycle of each individual cell (as represented by gayatra sama) is itself in turn perceived due to a false of sense of interaction between the components of knowledge namely the Known, the Knowable and the Unknown.
And ultimately the components of knowledge are themselves perceived due to a false sense of division in Existence.
posted by I am that I am at Sunday, March 26, 2006
38 Comments:
Terry...
I hope you are feeling better since the last time we spoke. I know we had a bit of a row so I came on to apoogize for my comments and to say I hope you are doing AOK. I also wanted to say that I have been enjoying your comments on Pete's current blog.
I hope the symptoms of the COPD have subsided as much as possible.
Be well
If this posted twice I am sorry, computer is acting funny again
Lovely picture of your daughter at the piano.
-Lin
Hello Lin,
Nice to hear from you, and thankyou.
I have to admit those pics I had on my space were out of context there, I realised afterwards, especially then because of what My Space is in some ways which would give the wrong associations with what I'd posted, so, no worries, hope you are well too, I'm managing with the illness, still do not smoke and will not smoke, feel very fine about that, a release.
Thanks about photo of Isabella my daughter, I like that one too, I thought she has something Mona Lisa-like in her gaze there, it has been weird then to see her as mother now when always she will be my little girl,how time flies.
love greetings
Terry
Enjoy your writings, Terry.
I especially love the bit about the piano and the deaf neighbor.
- Lucy.
Terry:
I have not a whole lot to say here, but...
A very BIG congrats to the grandfatherness of yourself!
...But that WAS a whole lot....!!!
--Dan L.
IamthatIam/Terry/Granpa:
As per my blog, to answer your question, yes, I am a grandfather as of about one and a half years ago. Somewhere on my blog is a video (?), and in Dec. of 2006 is a post of a couple of neat-o photos of Jesse, "The Boy".
As my blog indicates, I am 49, and was 48 when the boy was launched.
As for your reference on PT's blog about me and religion, I am actually am very devoted, and our family is deep in a history that way. There are four nuns (most all quite elderly now, with one deceased) and a priest uncle of mine in Texas. I, myself, read scripture aloud at our parish church (lector), and believe in what I do not just from birth, but in life as well, and more so.
I respect all people, and banish no one to oblivion...as some vigorous believers in faiths do, but rather, I try to do my best, and trust in the mercy of our Creator to shine His light as He knows best. I do nudge folks, but quite kindly, and have little time to bug anybody that way. I help with thoughts and words, interpretations and history when asked, but I judge no man, as God intends to be our sole judge.
Again, Happy Grandfathering!
Peace,
--Dan L.
hello, well, I have seen you around the Pete blog and thought I would stop and say hello.
hello
beautiful baby! (wrong thread, I know..)
See ya!
- Lucy.
Hebben wij weer: worden we straks ook nog blog outcasts...!
Kus, Eleonoortje
Hi Terry. Am I a pal?
Hello Gary,
Of course you are, I don't see why not, you never spoke to me, but not at me anyway.
It's been an odd week here in America Terry. I've been quite preoccupied with gun violence, the war, and where we are as a people. I really liked your last post on Ch 18. Be well.
Thanks Gary.
nice of you to drop in.
Also to say such things.
Yes, I looked into it today and was sad, when I saw those young (mostly) faces.
And that is what I mean too, that there is far wider connection to why we are losing track as human race. It isn't scare mongery, I don't think and i hope not, not what I am into, the last that is good is to help fear, but my concern, like yours then, leads me to need to say what I saw, because, I know that life is short, and it is'nt at all about not enjoying life, I too enjoy what I can, but it is'nt possible for me to just be happy and not think of what is wrong with the world as concerns violence then try to do my part against it.
We are all drawn into it, and it's no good.
I still do believe, that the higher consciousness of people is going to take over, it is the opnly thing to save the earth from entire destruction.
I'll have to get back to you about how I see it as being made possible, because looking at the extremitires going on, the threats like between countries like Iran and others, then I do'nt know how the wave can be calmed, because all want a piece of the pie, all want nuclear energy, and the right to have it, but the brakes on the world running away into world destruction won't be maintained if every country in the world can produce nuclear bombs.
Somehow, something brilliant must be thought up, that wil calm everyone down, because all are stubborn, and it is getting out of control. the 60's were different, there was some control, becausre of the fear between the two most powerful countries, both knowing that to start the ball rolling would mean curtains but other countries, without any system of human decency behind it in any way, living according to unfree ways, may end up with a nut at the controls and then it won't be possible to stop it.
So what I mean is that the Western way of control through violenbce has to be re-thought out, as it is now about to get entirely disproved it already has been disproved. It will take brilliant minds to alter the course life is on, here on earth, a reconstruction to stop the heaping of fuel onto the flames of anger.
Terr
Thanx for standing up for me to Nab., but I don't think she'll ever get the point.
Hi Terry,
I went by Neil's blog to see if he's updated, but after reading your last comment to him, I am concerned about how Neil is doing. Is he OK? did he really lose his house? Please let me know, thanks.
I'm an ancient Who fan (well not the bunch from the 60's, but from the crop that sprouted after the 1975 "Tommy" film) and tho I care deeply for the wellfare of Pete and Roger (and music) I assume I have some funky past life karma with the band (which currently, I cannot elaborate on), so I do not do much P.T./Who blogging.
I came here Terry, to thank you for this post you have up. I especially love the section of: sensing a spine blockage anywhere, (re: prana and apana) then what you are meditating on is an untruth and if there's no blockage than it is a truth (it is a simplification of what you wrote, sorry).
I'm an ex-hatha yoga instructor with just a bit of Buddhist meditation and alot of Hindu based hatha yoga practices to my background. I'm not terribly familiar with the details of emphysema but I'd imagine pranayama and breath exercises would be helpful? altho, unbelievably challenging I'm sure...
...all the best,Heidi
Thanks, Terry.
I'm nearly 9 months pregnant, right now so do feel not adequately equipped with proper time and energy to respond like I want. But I want to congratulate you on giving up the smoke so far and am genuinely sorry about your illness.
It is very exciting for you to have landed on the discovery of the link in Exodus to the soham and hamsa from the veda - an incredibly beautiful gem of a nugget of a discovery! (The passage in my father's old Catholic Bible - from around the 1940's or so - has the quote in Exodus as, 3:14 "I am who am"). Goes to show how Moses was in touch with his BREATH - that the SOURCE OF ALL is within and not without.
Later on in your post there is mention of:
"the known, the knowable and the unknown are alone the reality." And this reality relates to the source of deities: Indra, Vishnu and Brhaspati. I assume it relates also to "the father", "the son" and "the holy spirit" of Christianity.
I think (don't know for sure) I understood what you posted about the meaning of soham and hamsa (soham and hamsa relating to the ALL THERE IS...the unknown). I know there is much that slips by me, of course...
Peace and Om back, Terry, Heidi.
Hello again Heidi,
(I wrote this then removed it thinking it is too much but I am what I am, and it is what it is so I'm putting it back)
Wow, congratulations how exciting for you, my daughter just had a baby, and it is such an experience for me too, because it is new, how I feel, I mean, that instant bond I feel with my little grandson, because it is my daughter's child, it's just as special as when my daughter was born.
The Father son and spirit part, yes, I think you could be right there.
Part of the key to understanding ancient learning is to understand first the type of language used in the then literature and poetry.
Poetic verse was the language for and of divine insight, and in many cultures the song and verse preceded any written works simply because it was hard to write everything down, one could not pop into a store and buy paper, only in China, where they had it first but get back to a certain time-phase and things were chiselled into stone.
This is why verse was all-important first but then the manner it was spoken and the habits in it, like to use certain phrases that back then, those who were in the know knew exactly what the phrase implied, so when speaking of this THE SON, it was not even, namely, a masculine thing, because if one studies into the ancient languages of the time before Jesus and at that time, then Greek, Aramaic, Latin, were used, but Greek was the language of the studious and intellectual world, in those old languages, at the time of Jesus, when a sentence was said, there were words that implied neither male nor female, the non-specific of gender, but when translated, either through misinterpretation and bad translation, translators inserted the male when the gender was neutral. So this has come to be a great misunderstanding.
Even about comprehending this idea of the thing that is like the thing that knows us when we do not know us, so like a Father and Mother, capital f and m.
These two, given a human interpretation and word, which we all know as the word GOD, but God is not a name, and is not God or Father and Mother in human terms it is, but not in real terms, because the idea the thing itself that thing which is all-powerful could not limit what it is by saying I am a word, and then a word as in a name, because a name is nothing but a name, but essence is much more, is infinite, is changing, is motive, is life, and in that movement and life all things are contained. This is why then I have come to the conclusion that the thing humans call God, did not call itself God, did not say to Moses, "Tell them God sent you" but said instead, tell them I am everything and nothing, simply by saying I am that, I am.
I am, is the part that brings the consciousness into the universe.
To say, I am, is to be conscious that you exist.
WWhen the unconscious moves from those waters of unconsciousness into the realm and waters of consciousness, it moves on the surface pondering what is what, it faces the one element across from the other, then perceives, without altering or uinfluencing what is what, it sees, it sees that it IS, that it is EXISTENCE, and then only after that can say, not I am Fred or Mary or God but instead, on realizing that it really does exist, it explodes into joy at this realization by knowing instead of being dead and unexistent, it exists, and this brings consciousness, of itself, the I, and because the I exists, it says, I AM.
But then seeing into space and the distance and the exterior it senses that it is here, but asks what is that there. Outside of its immediate existence or presence, so the I has already realized that it is life, the only true existent, because inaminate objects cannot perceive3 that they exist, and so material objects without soul or spirit inside those souls cannot experience that it is in the world, those things just are, but the rock does not know whether it is or it isn't, that's why, the essence of life is consciousness because if that which exists cannot know that it is existent then it remains either a rock or a life-form that just exists without the consciousnes that came to be planted in the human. An animal exists but does not meditate on those things, like saying to itself, who am I why am I , it ijust is, like the rock, existent. But it is still part of life. This is why the human is different to any insect or tree or other life form, because we are the leaves of the tree that grew on the tree of life and came to have the gift of analysing who we are and why we are, and where we are.
But if Jesus came to earth as a pure being unwilling to give upon love and able to withstand all the ways of hate, just like a human can if highly developed after passing through many births, after reincarnation after reincarnation, then Jesus unable to hate and able to remain in love could not go and be born amongst humans when they, who were supposed to be unlike the beasts of the earth, having the ability to show mercy and forgiveness because of the intelligence in them with which to reason things out, still then in reality acted like savages towards themselves and other life forms, and then not comprehending unity or harmonics, they went about fighting against the light of love, so then Jesus born down with the beasts in a manger amongst lowly cattle because they were more worthy, because some of those animals might kill to live but humans just kill for nothing and no reason, so this was the place Jesus could lay his head, not amongst the humans who could not receive love or comprehend, as they went about their daily business, doing for themselves and everything related to their own. Whereas, Jesus said that we must become bigger people by embracing all and our enemies so that we would have no more enemies. Which in practical terms means that the type of love we find for our own mother and father and children and wife or husband, we have to find for all people.
Because it is this simple doing for the self which causes all of the selves in the world to be led astray, and move so far away from love, and this is the reason people can fight wars.
Male became the thing the specific gender that over-rode every text, and this also has to to with the masculinization of the written word.
A tradition that has permeated every school of written work.
Into religion most profoundly where God is always he but where the true meaning, where a real world would be reflected where not only masculine exists but also as in nature feminine is equal.
So then when a father and or a son is mentioned, it may be found out, after a lot of studying for those who are led into that studying, that the world they think they know and understand, with this male God this Lord and every form of that in its superior mode, may not in fact be wha life is all about and that actually the term The Father also is not descriptive, not accurately of what this concept father really means.
To me the father is the mother as the mother is part of the father and they are one.
In the divine sese, there is no separation but there is the basis of the universe where all form came from the one, where there was wholeness to start and where division came then out from the one, but where division is always in essence still joined to that one, simply because there is no separation, everything is part of everything else.
On a personal level, I may feel lonely but I am never alone.
In the universal sense the planets make look lonely part every part of what there is is a part of everything else.
So the father, is never above the mother, in fact, the symbolic meaning, tolfe, is that in life, the father comes from the mother, because it is from the mother that all lifeis given to the visible world, the baby unborn, is invisible but is there growing and then the mother gives that child in birth to the world.
In the supernatural sense and on the highest level of consciousness, the universe is feminine, the one is feminine, as it gives birth to this universe, so this is why all ancient symbolic art, was feminine, like the meaning of Isis from Egypt, as female symbol of life, is that she is the supreme Goddess of all form, she is the keeper of the divine knowledge in her is that rod which is that rod that lay at Moses's feet which turned into that snake of wisdom and knowledge.
That is why the rod, we will lean on it, it is not what it seems, it is symbolically a rod and just wood with a hooked end for a shepherd to lean on, but in it is the secrets of life and to the successful form of civilization, where it is attached to the labyrinth the femall symbol becauseit represents the vortex of the womb, it is the whirling, that the dervishes re-present, (yes represent I know but re-present, is more clear) so they imitate the way all form whirls and how straight comes from eround and how it is then that every atom is round yet we humans perceive straight lines, this is why the labyrinth lay at the basic of the ancient world and was known for what it was to the ancient intelligensi, the real keepers of divine knowledge the true followers of God, the writers of gematria the thinkers who worked out angles, circles, who laid down the systems of numerics we use today, those who left us things we now do no understand as human beings, those pyramids those stonehenge buildings, those symbols that miraculously hide the secrets of DNA structure, now isn't that a thing, DNA?
Yes the whirling and swirling vortex, that even resembles a female, the Greek Key hidden in the labyrinth. The labyrinth that opens fan-like from the straight-lined Key of Life, into the rounded labyrinth.
All of what we have comes from the inside.
In the end nothing can be hidden forever.
It isn't as much that a human designed a labyrinth, no, we ARE the LABYRINTH it is inside everything, it lies at the centre of all creation.
part of what the God (who never called itself God, people do this)
meant by saying I am that I am to Moses, was to say, that this thing that people call God, has no name, because to name God, as God wopuld limit God and this thing people call God is a thing which is limitless it cannot have a name, that is why the only way it can be described by iitself is, I am that I am, which is no name at all and could and can apply to anyone, because what it means is, that we are also not definable by a name, a name is not what we are, in a name we do not truly exist, but to say I am that I am is top say I am that one thing which does truly exist and that thing is eternal life.
Eternal life is not a limited concept or thing and applies to all life, because life is not separate but all life is part of the wonderful dance.
It is in this twist where the almighty sense of love for all things is found, where devotion to it leads the human past his or her suffering into that eternal life, through choice after perceiving finally the futility of trying to clutch onto a single life as one would to a drop of water in the ocean so when each individual has perhaps been moved through many lives closer to the truths of eternal life and moves closer to the source and centre, he or she sheds skin and through tragedy, perhaps through loss, gradually disattaches from the impermanent and embraces the full love which cannot be killed, because killing is something from earth, but eternal life is not in death, therefore what we experience as death on earth is only our body and truly our spirit never dies, but only is here on this testing ground in order to be liberated from illusion, illusion on earth, where we lose our spirit, where our spirits are pushed out of the light, into the background, and where the dark-light of mankind takes over through the individuals who are all units and parts of the human race, embrace instead the ways of the world so creating a force-field where the true light is hidden by the totality of bad karma all swirling around here.
It is in this that the 99 sheep are and where the one must also come home, so that all of us, together can overcome our lowness and bring almighty love onto this earth, instead of he almighty wickedness which is sat on the throne right now.
We have no responsibility except to find the light in life and then through the love that brings to us, to then recue other people from the darkness that rules their soul on earth.
When the body expires the soul travels on into spiritland, and it is this the soul that is the vehicle the mediator between heaven and earth between the body of materiality and the spirit which is our essence.
Without the soul then we wold not be born, it is the soul that we are, until there is no more universe.
But the soul moves through time and space and also loses the power of spirit through the overpowering of the material world when we enter it as bodies.
it is this we come to overcome, on earth, so that the logic of love can be made manifest, because though things seem to have happened by accident, they have not, because in all things there is intelligence, our universe and world has intelligence in it, and we came from that, we come as light but end in dark because we are fooled into taking darkness into our heart and then fall down.
That is why energy is playing out this dance where we move beyond the duality of night and day and male and female, where we will be, in the end, in spirit, because what we are, is part of all that ever was, all that ever is, and all that ever will be.
We look at a star millons of years old and try to understand ourselves but we are cast into human form so the idea that we are as huge in life as the sun is incomprehensible to us but this is because we are limmited by our human physical form.
This is why the Bible is misunderstood and taken as literal reference, six days and on the seventh, but a minute in spirit may be a million years. A second in paradise may be a million years.
It is all about perception our sensory perception deceives us. But we are more than our senses.
Senses are only tools of the spirit.
I will stop because my tongue is knicker twisted now.
Hi Terry, I appreciate and read, but did not fully digest, what you last wrote above - I'm too prego to digest ANYTHING (baby is coming out this Tues...a required C-section, just hospital protocol stuff) but much congrats on your new grandpa status!...aloha
Hi ya Tanstripe,
Hearty congratulations to you too, what an experience.
Yeah don't you worry, I had verbal dyeyourhair.
You must be very excited.
We didn't know if our child was going to be a boy or girl we wanted it to be a surprise, but my daughter knew so it was weird, I don't know if I like it that way, she was saying for months well, you are going to get a grandson.
I think it is more natural to not know.
Thanks yes, I'm letting it sink in being a grandfather, it is very grand, you see, until you are it you can't imagine how that is, how you slot into all kinds of new feelings and thoughts and, above al, how bonded one feels, like as if it is your own child, and now I understand the arguments the grandparent(S) can get into with the parent(S) because you love the grandchild as if it was your son or daughter.
Not saying I don't love in a more spacious way though, because I really do, I do feel for people, even those I don't know and have never seen, it is so important to me, to try to grow in love, to reach out.
Which in practical terms means though, even whilst loving in the universal sense it is still normal to not be able to stand certain people,lots of people even, because you know they are far from home and being/acting bad, but as long as you don't have them in your house and stuff but have them at a distance, I think I can and do have a sense of love for all people. I feel sorry for the lost souls. I do'nt hate them bu hate the bad stuff people do, because somehow I know it is not thereal them, it is something they've adopted on earth by living in a world where there is a shortage of reeal love.
I can't help it, I just know there are reasons why people go nuts.
I mean I will not detest some murderer or other wicked type of person any less than anyone else but still, I truly do think that people aren't born wicked.
Therefore I have trust in a hidden power that will raise us upwards as human race to a better existence together on earth, one day. Being here but for a short while it is not on me to add to the pile of hatred.
I don't think it is good as a pathway for anyone to become like the hateful people by being brough to hating the haters. Then we are all haters and not lovers.
Good Tuesday morning (night by you, I think?) to you, from Hawaii. Our sweet, healthy, beautiful baby daughter was indeed born last Tuesday.
I read your post in Pete's blog (the one about, When did he turn into a conservative Republican?).
I feel similar to you, and I ATTEMPT to channel alot of my creative energy into my own life - for me as an artist - instead of blogging tons at Pete's, so I don't get angry. At least Pete created a blog and that is a good thing. At least for me it has been, even though I have no idea where it will lead. Cheers, to you, Terry.
Thank you for your positive sentiments...yeah, I feel as if I hit the jackpot.
Namaste, Terry!
Thank you for the lovely/thoughtful response on Pete's blog. I did want to thank you here, rather than there ... as it seems more appropriate.
I've actually visited your blog a number of times, but for many reasons never left a comment. poor reasons. Tired, couldn't find the right words, lazy. I truly do get in time crunches, as i've 3 young children at home. (chronologically 8, 9, 10) I homeschool them for lots of reasons. 2 boys are autistic. 1 girl is hearing impaired. It gets to be a bit much at times, as I also work from home. But, I really don't want it any other way.
Okay. blah blah! lol
I know this isn't the thread, but I immensely enjoyed reading your recollections and photos (the ones with Charlie Chaplin, your lovely daughter, and grandson.)
That diner photo is so evocative. The Eel stuff nearly flipped me out. But, looking at that photo was like pushing into some parallel world. I don't know what it is. I've got to think some more on that one. (I've worked a long time getting over some inherent fear of snakes, snake=like creatures, and that includes eels. So, that was mostly the "flipping out" ... "ewwwww" sensation. The other flip out .. the good one ... was feeling pulled into that weird parallel somewhere.
So, without rambling and getting too wordy - which I have a terrible tendency toward, I'll just say thanks be to you. I feel you have a very good soul, a very good heart. And that's from just a light impression around you. I don't know you hardly at all to really know, if you know what I mean. Just a feeling I get.
Your posts on Pete's place are always really informative and I find them interesting. I don't know how Pete feels about it, but so far as I know ... he's not removed any of yours! lol
I'm pleased that you were happy about the Hermann Hesse note. That's my true impression around you. Just so's to be clear, when I wrote about the making sense part, that was strictly as pertaining to my post (which seemed a bit rambling.) So, thanks again. Hope we can "chat" another time!
xo tink
You do not have to answer me, Terry, but I was recently reading the book, "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, and ran across the Moses "I am..." passage. It got me thinking how I do not fully understand the soham meditation. I understand the hamsa (going up the spine) probably due to my kundalini training but the soham (going down the spine) truly - I do not 'get'...this particular meditation I do not grasp because it throws a REALLY dark cloud over me. It makes me super depressed, I do not feel comfortable dismissing the fruits of my past, ignoring everything and just concentrating on the now, it throws me into negative thoughts! I think that is why I do not understand it. Just wanted to express that. Hope you are well, Heidi.
Terry:
And Carl Sagan said: "We are made of the stuff of stars"
Happy Father's Day!
--Dan L.
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hi Heidi
Thanks Dan, you too.
Heidi, I will get back to you on this one.
It isn't supposed to make you feel that way.
That'll be a case of a faultive thought.
Because as the meditation says, it's true, the two are one.
They are in essence the same.
But, soham I am that, the exhalation and renunciation or death, is only within a physical idea or relam, this world then, that we live in.
It isn't that one ought to say everything that went before is of no value, it is the intention to be able to split from the past to see it but not to live in it, because in fact, one can never live in the past, because we always live now, not then.
Even if we imagine we are elsewhere we are not we are here.
If we had no information had never seen any other form of life no family and nothing at all and found ourselves in black empty space, and we were us, with our intelligence and senses, we'd want to know where we are, and who we are, but in this, in this very idea, we'd realise, hey but what is what, what is I, who is I, what does I mean.
If you had nothing to go on, everything would come from your own vision, sight and perceptions.
Then having no name and no names for anything, even if you did srart to name things yourself, you'd realise too, that though this is what you are going to call that thing, it still is'nt WHAT IT IS.
Soham is about what is.
Hamsa is. Because these things are the truly existent.
All the rest is the dance around everything that is within creation.
Hamsa and Soham hold the secrets of all existence and joy.
Without the rest, if and when a person gets to the pure state of realization he or she at realizing that he or she truly exsts is jopyful, because to exist is to be life, to not exist is to be nothing, to truly exist and to realise it that you are existence is the greatest joy because you then realize you never died and are life itself.
As long as there is life, you are part of it.
Like we are related to the very first humans on earth.
Yet beyond these material forms and shapes the greater shape is what is not manifest, the place we came from.
It's there that the centre of all intelligence is, and within that, there is a higher order, where we will reach our highest best, to be free.
Where nothing can harm us, where we know, and are complete love.
Hi Heidi
Thanks Dan, you too.
Heidi, I will get back to you on this one.
It isn't supposed to make you feel that way.
That'll be a case of a faultive thought.
Because as the meditation says, it's true, the two are one.
They are in essence the same.
But, soham I am that, the exhalation and renunciation or death, is only within a physical idea or relam, this world then, that we live in.
It isn't that one ought to say everything that went before is of no value, it is the intention to be able to split from the past to see it but not to live in it, because in fact, one can never live in the past, because we always live now, not then.
Even if we imagine we are elsewhere we are not we are here.
If we had no information had never seen any other form of life no family and nothing at all and found ourselves in black empty space, and we were us, with our intelligence and senses, we'd want to know where we are, and who we are, but in this, in this very idea, we'd realise, hey but what is what, what is I, who is I, what does I mean.
If you had nothing to go on, everything would come from your own vision, sight and perceptions.
Then having no name and no names for anything, even if you did srart to name things yourself, you'd realise too, that though this is what you are going to call that thing, it still is'nt WHAT IT IS.
Soham is about what is.
Hamsa is. Because these things are the truly existent.
All the rest is the dance around everything that is within creation.
Hamsa and Soham hold the secrets of all existence and joy.
Without the rest, if and when a person gets to the pure state of realization he or she at realising that he or she truly exsts is joyful, because to exist is to be life, to not exist is to be nothing, to truly exist and to realise it that you are existence is the greatest joy because you then realise you never died and are life itself.
As long as there is life, you are part of it.
Like we are related to the very first humans on earth.
Yet beyond these material forms and shapes the greater shape is what is not manifest, the place we came from.
It's there that the centre of all intelligence is, and within that, there is a higher order, where we will reach our highest best, to be free.
Where nothing can harm us, where we know, and are complete love.
I will get back to you though because this isn't a very good explanation.
I know how to explain it because I found soham and hamsa I did not learn it from a book, after I remember I am that I am i went on to look for things and then discovered the Vedic and the Bible.
These things are in each of us.
It is the first consciousness, and is the power that Jesus came from and any other light being too.
It is not of personality but of unity.
Thanks for expanding on the soham explanation.
I may not know what actual sleep is for about another two years from now, (I also have a three year-old) so I'm not terribly coherent these days, but I do want to say something regarding your explanation. Happy solstice - though it has passed by you - and sorry you aren't feeling well (regarding your recent 'boozey' post at Pete's).
Intellectually I grasp soham but not experientially.
Eight years ago, I had a severe - SEVERE - traumatic episode so my "identification with the joy of existence" completely vanished then. I now fear death (which goes hand in hand, of course, with fearing life) where as before, I did not...hopefully this will subside. This maybe the culprit of me not understanding soham.
Hi Heidi.
Yes I get it, you understand it with your thoughts but to feel it is another thing.
How I came to it, was through spontaneous regression.
That's what happened to me.
Through Raja Yoga, and focus on my childhood, I asked, why ca'nt I remember more, then I remembered more, and more and more and a thousand times more, by asking, and wondering why is it we remember some bits of childhood but most other bits are a complete blank, I then concentrated and walked back into my first home and dwelled there, I asked, and said, let me rember as far back as I can.
I then ended up remebering my birth and myself experiencing things before birth and that is where I found the labyrinth which is the key of life the tree of life, the cross the swastika, the basis of a successful civilzation where the secret of the straigh-lined material world coming from the rounded atom, where all form and its secrets are, where all intelligence and logic is, where there is more than the material world because the material world comes from that, not the other way around. And I would say, it is where we are spirit, and where we exist without physical form.
So in essence what we really are, is not the body.
I'll trry to get into this properly but I have'nt been very well.
Soham is the distance and hamsa is your centre and the immediate vicinity of you. I am that is everything you see in the distance but then without seeing yourself as separated from it, to see the distant and the neear as one thing and this is the essence of the breath of life.
Take care and I hope you have good energy for your kids.
As I know you need it (anyone does because kids demand it of course) my little grandson I have a picture and he is looking at me and he looks so wise, I'll have to put it on here later ciao ciao Heidi
Take care of yourself, Terry. I bit the bullet and threw up a baby photo on my blog. Peace.
Hi Terry,
Thought I'd pass something along to you that I happened upon today (in a psychiatric journal of all places) (a lot of reading material crosses my desk in a day). Anyway, it made me think of you. I hope you like it.
Well, it didn't post, so I'll try this again.
Here's the URL: http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/i-am/
and here's the poem:
I Am
I am: yet what I am none cares or knows,
My friends forsake me like a memory lost;
I am the self-consumer of my woes,
They rise and vanish in oblivious host,
Like shades in love and death's oblivion lost;
And yet I am! and live with shadows tost
Into the nothingness of scorn and noise,
Into the living sea of waking dreams,
Where there is neither sense of life nor joys,
But the vast shipwreck of my life's esteems;
And e'en the dearest--that I loved the best--
Are strange--nay, rather stranger than the rest.
I long for scenes where man has never trod;
A place where woman never smil'd or wept;
There to abide with my creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept:
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie;
The grass below--above the vaulted sky.
Thanks very much Lucy,
Cheered me up the poem, and to hear from you.
I really appreciate that, and I like the poem, I can honestly say.
That makes things easier too eh, to not have to pretend to like a thing in order to please someone, that's a nice one Lucy, I'm so choosy about things I mostly irritate myself.
love best wishes
Terry
Just dropped in to tell you what a nice person I think you are. Thanks for your kind words. You´ve always got something to say and you always seem to be there for everybody.
Thanks.
Estela.
Hey Terry ~
Thanks for stopping by. Sorry I wasn't in to offer a cup of tea or coffee. :o)
Hope you're feeling better this week, and that your decision comes easier and brings you peace.
I'll stop in again later. It's very crazy busy this week with the children needing new developmental assessments and school placement issues.
Take care and remember to get outside a little bit each day!
xo Tink
Hi Terry,
Just wanted to say I read a recent post of yours on Rob's blog and wanted to send you some nice thoughts.
I kinda know where you're coming from.... it's good to get out in the fresh air -- out in the country... in the woods. Peace for the mind... Internet can be "too much" at times. Overwhelming.
It sounds like maybe moving back to UK might be a good idea too. A one hour plane ride to see your daughter is not bad at all! Think of how spread out we are here in the US -- our family members are scattered. It's hard. I know...
Take good care this week,
Lucy.
Hi Terry!
TAG! You're it!
http://weirdwagon.blogspot.com/
xo
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